gEDA-dev: Gschem and Cairo graphics library

[Stuart Brorson]

Igor --

Thank you for proposing concrete action!  Your spirit is appreciated!!

>> My challenge to those who don't like the CD is this:
>>
>> Please produce a single download file which installs the whole set of
>> gEDA tools onto the computer of a naive user.  The tools to install
>> should be at least those available on my CD, if not a superset of
>> those tools.  The installation method can be distro-specific (i.e. one
>> for FC, one for SuSE, one for Debian, etc)  It can be something like a
>> yum server bundled with all the relevant dependencies.  Make it easy
>> for the naive user to get the software onto their boxen with one or a
>> few clicks.  And not just the gEDA/gaf stuff, but also PCB, Icarus
>> Verilog, ngspice, gnucap, gerbv, etc etc etc.
>
> If I would make such thing using the chroot idea, would you then maintain
> it long term?

I won't make a promise about this one way or another.  I'm a busy guy
too (although I realize I've wasted too much time ranting on geda-dev
over the last day or two . . .)  I will say this:  If your install
method is transparent enough (which it should be if it is technically
superior to my CD installer), and it becomes widely used, then either
I or some other gEDA developer will be very happy to maintain it.
It's the nature of open-source that good, useful programs tend to live
forever since they are handed from one maintainer to the next.
Therefore, don't worry about supporting it long term.  If it works
well, it will be supported.

I *will* promise you this:  I will run your installer through my
test/validation process.  That is, I have several spare machines which
I load up with various newish distros and run my isntaller on them to
verify that it works & doesn't crash.  I will be very happy to do the
same thing with your installer.

> It would be like this: the user gets the stuff as an ISO or as a
> tarball. In either case he also gets a simple shell script he needs to
> run.
>
> The ISO/tarball would not be distribution-specific, but would depend on
> chroot and X only. Of course it's only for Linux kernel and x86 (binary
> distribution).

That's what we want!  Sounds good!

>> Don't, however, make a tool which requires an internet connection,
>> knowledge of Klik, or the ability to use [apt-get, yum, etc], or
>> require more than basic-level Linux ability.  Please keep in mind that
>> many users are not developers, and don't feel comfortable with (or
>> even know about) these package/dependency management tools.
>
> Those who choose the ISO version would need to be able to burn a CD and
> start a shell script on the cd.

Right!

>> Getting back to my challenge: If somebody would step up and produce
>> such a beast, I am 100% sure that his installer would end up in a
>> prominent place on the gEDA downloads page.   It would be a great
>> thing for the gEDA project!  And I'd be happy to see my CD Installer
>> become just a happy memory if we got a complete set of more
>> spiffy installers.   However, unless somebody actually produces such a
>> beast, all opinions on this issue are "full of sound and fury,
>> signifying nothing."
>
> Well, it wouldn't be a real installer as it wouldn't add anything to the
> user's own system. This is disadvantage as in having many binaries inside
> the chroot that may exist on the system anyway. However, for a beginner
> who doesn't care to learn package management it would worth as there
> wouldn't be any lib dependencies and would be pretty
> distribution-independent.
>
> The only real problem is communication between the chroot and the outer
> system, like when the user wants to save his stuff to be open with another
> tool his system has. He wouldn't be able to access his home. Of course the
> outer system still can easily 'look in' the chrooted environment.

This sounds like a Knoppix-type package.  Or am I wrong?  Anyway, we
have talked about a Knoppix-type package for gEDA since Al Davis
proposed the idea at least 2 years ago.  It's a good idea, and would
be a welcome addition to the downloads page.  It's just that nobody
has done it yet, so that's why we don't have one.  But I think it
would be great to have one!

Cheers,

Stuart