gEDA-dev: Gschem and Cairo graphics library

[Stuart Brorson]

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, Bob Paddock wrote:

(snip of many good points/observations)

Bob, I think you and I agree on most every point.  I'll just make a
couple of riffs on your points.

>> Don't, however, make a tool which requires an internet connection,
>> knowledge of Klik, or the ability to use [apt-get, yum, etc]
>
> Isn't the Wiki for just such instructions?  For each person that has
> their favorite install program, whatever it may be, would you please
> add some instructions to the Wiki on what to do.
> Do you have room to put the Wiki on your physical CDs?  I can see
> why you would not want to put it on a down-loadable image,
> and if you are downloading the image then you have access to
> the Wiki.

I agree to some extent that better online documentation would help.
However, we all know that many users don't bother to read the
documentation.  Unfortunate, but true.  Also, I think that Apple has
shown us all that you shouldn't need to read documentation in order to
be able to use a computer.  I tend to belive that this is ultimately
correct -- the computer should be smart enough that it is easy to
configure/use.

In any event, I do plan on doing this:

1.  Finalize the gEDA Install CD.  This means testing it and
incorporating a few more patches, like one which Dan sent me this
morning (thanks Dan!)

2.  Stick the tested CD on the gEDA download page in place of the
current one.

3.  Write some expository text for the download page explaining what
each of the downloadable files are (i.e. RPMs of gEDA/gaf alone for RH
and FC systems, debs of gEDA/gaf alone for Debian/Ubuntu, as well as a
source CD of the entire "gEDA Suite" with bundled installer for my
CD.  I will also point to Wojciech's ROM download page, and any other
source for installable files.

The vision is that then the end user can figure out what type of
install he wants, binary, source + install wizard, or source only.

4.  I'll update the Wiki to point to the download page, and vice
versa.

>> (I gotta say that I field a lot of support requests since we run the
>> Free Dog meetings in Boston, and since I produced the install CD.  The
>> level of questions/problems we have with users has convinced me that
>> folks who say "just use [apt-get, yum, etc]" simply don't get it!
>> Knowledge of these tools is not as widespread as you might think!
>
> Then we need to do better documentation as a group, rather than
> discourage their usage.

I don't discourage the usage of RPM, deb, or any other install method
which people want.  Indeed, Ales re-arranged the download page after
he and I discussed the fact that many people were having problems with
the install CD.  I am all for users choosing their favorite install
method.  I will also work to better document the installation.

My only point here is that the RPMs, debs, and so on on the gEDA
download page are of gEDA/gaf only.  They don't address the problem of
obtaining the latest version of every component of the "gEDA Suite".
Only my CD currently does that.  I have no problem adding any other
install method which addresses that issue to the gEDA download page.

>> Unfortunately, prospective gEDA users are very
>> frequently flummoxed by how to install gEDA, and it is important for
>> us developers to be sensitive to this problem.)
>
> I have to admit that I am "frequently flummoxed by how to install gEDA"
> myself.  I always forget that I need to install the GD library first if I want
> PNG output to work.  I install and build a lot of software and I find gEDA
> in its current form the hardest.  As someone else recently pointed out
> why can't it be one tar.gz file with a single ./configure ?

Indeed.  But the problem is a little bigger.  Configure will die if
the dependencies aren't already installed.  And given all the
components of the "gEDA Suite", that's a lot of dependencies.  My CD
tries to load all dependencies first, and then does the "configure &&
make && make install" thing.  Unfortunately, it doesn't always work,
given the rate at which Linux distros change.  Of course, there are
other ways to handle the dependencies (apt-get, yum, etc).  It's up to
proponents of those methods to create an easy-to-install package
instead of whining about the currently existing CD.

Stuart