gEDA-dev: Gschem and Cairo graphics library

[Igor2]

On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, John Doty wrote:

<snip>

>Distro-specific packages are a good thing, and we should honor those  
>who maintain them. But there's also a place for a nearly foolproof  
>hermetic package. That's also an honorable pursuit.
>
>John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
>jpd at wispertel.net
>

Ohh, come on, if you have followed the mailing about the chroot'd stuff
in the past days, you see that only Debian users tested it. Debian users,
who wouldn't use it anyway since it's _simpler_ to type apt-get install
geda than to download a file, unpack it and run a shell script from it :)

I think this proves a point: those who don't want to know anything about
their own system should just buy a $10000 software and use windows. They
don't want to contribute in getting a version that does exactly what they
want, even if contribution is limited only on using it. I think a FOSS
project should target only people who are willing to help the project.

I don't say that if someone, like Stuart, wants to help those passive
users shouldn't do. But I find it sad that active users feel the drawbacks
of the fact that the project hopelessly tries to support passive users. I
mean if there are 1000 closed source $10000 projects for the passive
users, then why should a FOSS project do the same? And if it does the
same, what's left for the a FOSS user who wants something different? What
can I use if I don't care about dependencies but want a feature that is
already provided by existing libs?

Anyway someone in this thread asked why does someone contribute in a FOSS
project that doesn't reach such passive end users, and is only a toy for
some hardcore unix users. I think the answer is very simple: who asks such
a question can't imagine any other reason for writing a program than to
make as many people as possible use it. In the commercial world this means
money. For some hobby programmers this means fame. But don't be that
blind; there might be a dozens of other reasons, like someone
just needs a program, or he needs one that works the way he wants. Or he
just enjoys writing it. It's like hobby fishing: all the stuff and time
one spends on it is much more than the value of the fish he will have at
the end. When he invites us to a dinner to eat those fish with him, do we
say that "What a lame fish do you have here? Why didn't you just buy some
real fish in the market?" And I don't mean being unpolite, rather that we
understand that the goal of his fishing was not to serve use the best fish
we ever ate.

So, sorry about joining this pointless flamewar, I just wanted to point
out that the real problem is clearly not how gEDA works or dependencies or
whatevers. If it was, those who have spent at least 30 minutes in the
previous days on trying to explain why they want a working bloated
dependency-free package could just try one out. They didn't. So do they
really want it? Or should the project give up things to help them getting
it if they refuse to try it out? Like should the project reduce
dependencies and maybe spend extra time on implementing functionality 
already existing in available libs because users who don't spend a few
minutes on testing the package they asked for? 

And no offense, especially not towards John, I really picked this
mail randomly (there were at least 4 other mails telling the same idea in
this thread). Also I do not care what happens to my chroot stuff, so
don't think I'm sad because I've spent time on it then the target
audience haven't checked it. My primary goal was to see whether the idea
works (and it worked on two of my boxes). And no, I never do it for the
pleasure to see that 1000000 users will use it. Call me ignorant. Why I
am really sad is that i see gEDA sometimes is going in a direction I don't
like because targeting passive users. Now call me selfish :)

Btw, if passive users would change their attitude and I would get test
results on the chroot'd stuff, I would make it up to date and really
usable. Not because I would ever use it myself or I want to see people
using it. Purely because I think this would be a way to allow having
dependencies without having to worry about passive users.

Regards,

Igor2

P.S. Sorry about the length of the mail.